Harry Potter Phenomenon
From Tom Bandy
By now, a good many people in your church have bought ... and read ... all of the new Harry Potter book.
I am not particularly interested in talking about the relative value or profundity of the book. I am interested in reflecting on how and why the book impacts so many different cultures ... to become a global phenomenon. It is certainly interesting to note that core buyers of the new book are not younger children, but university students and older teens, and that the entire series parallels the growth of an entire generation.
I invite any reflections you might have on the phenomenon
A response
Tom, Here's my take on its impact:
1) I think the biggest impact is the story line. It's interesting and draws people in because of the story found in the books and the way people can feel a part of it in their own way.
2) The quality of the product - those who read the books love the story line as it continues, how well it's written, and they haven't been disappointed yet. The quality is consistent for the longtime reader and for those who jump into it at any time.
3) The marketing of the product - a good part of the marketing fit the personality of the product and made it almost impossible for a large amount of people to turn out for the book within the first 24 hours of its release.
4) In the end, the advertising can't outshine the product. The product always towers above the marketing.
A Response
Watchout, Tom, you’ll upset the CAVE people.
I’d like to say that I was at a midnight Potter party (Hasting’s Books) because it is so important for me as the lead visionary to be researching the culture. I did make a thousand mental notes on who I met and what they talked about. They may go to a church, but they didn’t go to mine. I was shocked. I did not see one person I know. I can’t go to a 16 seat restaurant without knowing someone around here.
Back to the point. I guess I’m one of core buyers you’re talking about. A bit old. But Star Wars doesn’t interest me and LOTR was a nice diversion to my adolescence. But it was no driving force. I waited for them to come out on video (except for Return of the King—I went three weeks into its release date). But I’ll go at midnight to get Potter. Have each time since the phenomenon hit on book three. (No midnight sell for books one or two to my knowledge).
Optimistic look #1:
There is something that engages the imagination in reading versus watching. As excited as our culture may get over movie releases, books force us to imagine, and we don’t get to do that very often. This is why I prefer dramatic reading of scripture over dramas in worship. I’d rather hear David and Goliath (last week, incidentally!) read well than see a kid wander around in too big for him clothes then throw a rock at an adult. Literary story, either verbal or written, will survive the culture war. I think it is part of our anthropology. The issue is that not many stories will capture us. But when they do, we’re going to hold on with all we got.
Optimistic look #2:
In an era of constant change and chaos, a story that delivers to us a story world where chaos (magic) is the norm feels very comfortable. Kinda like the monster movies of the 50s where the underlying “threat” really was communism, but they didn’t need to tell you, hey, what you fear about Frankenstein is what you fear about communism. It was a common appeal to a perception. Our perception is that chaos is running amok and our hope is that someone realizes it and won’t control it but find the way to use it well. Same theme. Now that I’ve said it, I’ve taken the joy out of reading the last 100 pages (tonight’s treat). I like just reading it and falling into the story. But you asked for an analysis, so thanks for stealing the joy, .
Optimistic look #3:
Its fun. We need more fun.
Does that start us up?
A response
having read them all (some twice) and seen them all--there is a “spiritual quality” to the books. Good (Harry and gang) really triumph over evil and do it with their own wits, skills and gifts. There is always a “providential” helper who shows up at the right time, with the right stuff (Like lord of the Rings, and soon to be released Narnia—I will be interested to see if Aslan captures as many people as Potter or Hagrid. When I was a young believer, I much preferred Aslan to—dare I say it—God. Aslan shows up, you can feel his breath, hear the growl. God....even Lewis said, “where is God when you are desperate, when all other help is in vain? This is the most disquieting thought.”
compare Potter with the gospel. The good guy loses, except eschatologically, mystically and spiritually. The end of the story isn’t in (if you count revelation of st. john you have a picture—that is why “left behind” sold so well), but at each chapter the negatives seem greater than the positives; all that talk about purity, shifting and righteousness is wonderful, extremely painful, will rip your soul apart, and many pray and die. Harry on the other had is going to win. You know it. You know it because it isn’t title “Lord –the name we must not say”. It is always , Harry Potter...”
plus, it is fun, a great read, with hidden meaning, at different levels. RK is an excellent writer.
I wonder what others think....
and no I haven’t read the latest one. My daughter had the nerve to take it to camp with her yesterday...arg!!!
A Response
When I watch these movies, or read these books, I am struck by the wild courage of Harry and friends in the face of very difficult lives, unsupportive families, forces of evil everywhere present and active. I think people (not just children) hook on to the sheer bravery of Hermione and Harry and the rest of them, and take it as encouragement that they can face whatever comes their way; that they can risk with abandon; that they too can survive scary times.
A Response
It is about what story you want to be in:
Harry Potter = An animated community of supernaturally equipped people boldly taking on and subjugating the forces of evil.
The Church = A museum of lifeless mannequins keeping things just the way they never were and timidly keeping the world safe for mediocrity and compromise.
If the Church won’t live the Jesus story, then the world is compelled to write its own version. A myth is better than no story at all.
A Response
Man, this Potter topic has me squirming a bit.
I live in a town where witchcraft is embraced. That spirit is a killer. I could tell stories of encounters with witchcraft that would bring tears to your eyes. Very real and deadly stories that have been devastating for my family and many others I know.
The church’s attempt at relevance by embracing this latest cultural phenomena is another nail in its coffin. The church must be radically and visibly different than the world… we must prophetically declare the Word of the Lord… and stop being so afraid of losing an audience if we ‘say the wrong thing’.
I find it hard to believe that it would be ok for us to encourage a child to escape deeply into the story of Harry Potter. Man, that’s scary. Demonic spirits really do attach themselves to such material. My son has seen them. I’ve seen them.
If the bible clearly forbids acceptance of any type of witchcraft, how in the world can we even come close to ‘discovering what is good’ with it? It’s very, very dangerous.
A Response
Don’t know if it’s worth bringing up here, but as church planters in such a wicked city, we have had a target on our backs from day one. We have had curses on our family… I could share with you some dreams that would shock you… and the spirit of witchcraft has killed three of our unborn children over the past two years. It’s a violent and terrible spirit… and for anybody to entertain these spirits, or be entertained by them through books like Potter, through certain video games, through certain movies, etc. is a horrible mistake.
Response
OK, is there where we’re supposed to be pastoral and merciful and stop talking about the thread itself? See, how rhetoric can be so powerful? If you use a firm voice and throw down absolutes and generalizations and make claims that no one on this board can rightfully dispute, then you win the argument, right? And I look like the cold and callous one if I counter. It’s really an unfair tactic, John. None of us are close enough to you to corroborate the story and we all look like unfaithful meanies if we question it. That’s the fun way of arguing. Classic strategy: control the emotional content from the beginning and then use all responses as validation. Voices in support are clearly lifted up, and critical voices are either “uninformed” or “demonic.” Control the rhetoric and control the monologue.
So, I’ll try not to be mean Jay. Tom’s kindly requested this from me in the past.
Am I allowed to use the very same rhetoric and talk about the people who have come to Christ after hearing that a Christian enjoyed reading Potter and that was the first conversation that person had ever had with a non-CAVE Christian? I try not to use rhetoric in such a fashion. I also try not to make my experience in the faith to be the universal experience for the faith.
Jay
Response
I would recommend that you don’t assume that your manner with ministering to the needs of those leaving cults is the only way of dealing with people getting free. I believe that your way of ministering is very effective. I don’t question it. I question the one who thinks that the way he does it is the only way to do it and that anyone who doesn’t do it his way has no experience in it. I did not say that the events you described did not happen, but that no one on this board can refute them. You’re assuming that I’m the novice that has no experience with people caught up in cults involving witchcraft. That might not be a firm place for you to stand. I would suggest that you not presume I have not spoken with such persons or even am not such a person.
My point remains that the escalation of religious rhetoric is a nifty ploy and I think you’ve got it down. Escalating to “what the Bible says” is a fun rhetorical tool as well. The Bible says nothing about reading fiction. It isn’t witchcraft. It isn’t a religious manual. It is a work of fiction. But you jumped on the religious rhetoric bandwagon so you can control the conversation.
To answer your last question: I believe in Jesus Christ.
Response
I think we may just come from two different perspectives. That’s a-ok. My position is that anything that is based upon forbidden practices, or sinful ideas should be exposed, not aligned with. Demons are real… they are smart and they are deadly. It’s impossible to resist the devil if we embrace him… many people unknowingly do this… they embrace fear, bitterness, control, gossip, manipulation, etc. Those are alliances with actual demon spirits. That’s why so many need deliverance. I met someone who once said that they’ve never met a Christian who didn’t need deliverance. I tend to agree.
The Bible says, “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.” Potter is very dark. Who knows how many people have been demonized because of that book. I wonder how many have died.
50 years ago, this book would have been banned… Christians would have been rising up in opposition to it with boldness. Today is a very different day.
Response
Hmmm.... Let's not be so pessimistic here....
I was in Philly for part of live 8 - there were a lot people there who
didn't care about anything other than a free concert - and there were a
lot of people there who gave a rip that people are dying because
unpayable debts rung up by countries beholden to the rest of the world.
www.live8live.com
Frankly, I was so encouraged because I saw Christians right in the midst
of it - and they were favorably received because people finally saw some
Christians who actually cared about the world and didn't mind standing
next to other people who cared about the world.
Book 7 reveals that in Harry's world the only power evil cannot
comprehend or overcome is love. I would add that this would be a very
good starting point in finding a connection with God's world; as it's
more true in reality than in HP.
Response
Burton, John wrote:
> I think we may just come from two different perspectives. That’s a-ok.
> My position is that anything that is based upon forbidden practices,
> or sinful ideas should be exposed, not aligned with.
>
OK. I won't ask you to share my view then as it would violate your
conscience - thank you for the reverse as you've stated here.
> Demons are real… they are smart and they are deadly. It’s impossible
> to resist the devil if we embrace him… many people unknowingly do
> this… they embrace fear, bitterness, control, gossip, manipulation,
> etc. Those are alliances with actual demon spirits. That’s why so many
> need deliverance. I met someone who once said that they’ve never met a
> Christian who didn’t need deliverance. I tend to agree.
>
Yes, demons are REAL, and violent, and full of hate and lies. No
question - no argument. However, I BELIEVE in Jesus Christ and trust in
his power to redeem this world and subvert the work of the powers and
principalities for the glory of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
What troubles me is that I've been asked so many times, "Do you believe
in Satan?" or "Do you believe in demons?" that I'm wondering if the
questions themselves aren't demonic deceptions. English is an imprecise
language. I think we often throw our words around a bit to carelessly
(emphasis on the WE).
> The Bible says, “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of
> darkness, but rather expose them.” Potter is very dark. Who knows how
> many people have been demonized because of that book. I wonder how
> many have died.
>
Here I have to cry "foul," this is speculation and doesn’t add to your
point unless someone already shares your assumptions. What you stated in
the first paragraph is sufficient to make people understand why YOU
don't read Harry Potter - this latter statement is hearsay - it's
difficult to discuss it because there are no numbers.
Put it this way, I've got friends who dislike Christian schools because
they saw people who were genuinely searching for God get slammed down by
people who didn't like questioners. They say things like, "I wonder how
many people who have been rejected the faith because of their experience
at a Christian school." This is the same type of augment, and it
completely invalid.
Now, one of my friends said, "Look, I had a friend 'Jake,' who's faith
was ruined by going to a Christian school." That would be CLOSER to
helpful - but still anecdotal.
If one of my friends said, "I tracked a scientific sample of people who
went to Christian schools who identified their faith as 'strong' when
they went into the school - and had a control group in a public school
(and perhaps home schooling as well), then that would be truly helpful to
conversation.
Of course, at the same time there are "lies, damn lies, and statistics."
So I just take everything with a grain of salt.
Wow, that was fun - anyone got $10, 000 do the study?
Response
Where is the line drawn? Maybe it's just too black and white for me... what is unclear about the sin of witchcraft? We're to avoid even the appearance of evil. I'm sure many in the world are shocked that the church isn't making a stand... I am as well. The church goes to R rated movies, watches TV that supports homosexuality and other issues, and refuses to prophetically shout from the rooftops what is holy and what is not. We are supposed to be the agents of change and ambassadors of righteousness in the world.
I'm just very concerned that we're straying FAR from biblical Christianity. The church needs to stand in great opposition to what is impure... yet it is embracing what is condemned for the sake of evangelism?
Beyond that... my main point here is the extreme danger in even reading those books... especially children. We must err on the side of caution on this one.
From Tom Bandy
Jay and John:
My personal interest in the thread is not really to debate the content of the Potter novels, but to probe the phenomenon of their global impact. We see today an explosion of spiritualities and religious practices, ranging from the curious to the dangerous.
Other than the Bible, the Koran, and the Torah (and perhaps some Vedas), it makes think about a shortlist of literature that has similarly caused a global phenomenon. Salmon Rushdie's "Satanic Verses", for example, was a work of fiction that globally influential, but considered by some Muslims to be such a literal work of the devil that the author was targeted for assassination, and by other Muslims as a breath of fresh air.
It is interesting to me that the Potter phenomenon has impacted non-western-European cultures as well, but to my knowledge has not received such violent condemnation by other cultures outside North America. But I am curious to hear from others who have experience with other cultural reactions. Why would Japanese, for example, be passionate about the book as well? Or east Europeans? or ...?
I think everyone in our forums is committed to stay close to Biblical Christianity, and seeks to oppose impurity to stand with Christ. Where to draw the boundaries, and how to devise the strategies, will differ a great deal among leaders. And that is a debate that demands both good listening as well as articulate opinion.
I think, for example, that if all of us were to develop lists of books and movies that we consider "essential", "useful", "permissible", "inappropriate", and "absolutely banned" we would all have some different books and movies in the list. We will listen, discuss, and perhaps, in the end, still disagree. But the discussion is what expands our insight and perspective.
Response
Funny thing…. I see people spend more time worried about Satan and the powers of darkness and blaming everything on that than I do see Christians in action, looking out for the oppressed, the poor and the hurting. Mostly, in my neck of the woods these same people are on TV.
Satan in my neighborhood is Meth and it possesses many, many souls. Funny thing is, it was invited in and NOT through a children’s book, but in my neighborhood, it is generally the PARENTS introducing drugs. I work with people who have lost three generations to drugs. How does one break out of something that has stolen their who family? It is tough..
I think the Potter movies are great, haven’t read the books. I think that people like to imagine clear cut choices. I notice that the kids in the Potter books are -- Orphans, Poor, and away at a boarding school, separated from parents. Essentially, they have to outwit the powers of evil on their own, using powers of fellowship and community and love. I think these themes resonate in our young folks today. They are alienated and feel apart and along from their parents.
I think it goes along with the CSI craze. My favorite shows, CSI, Cold Case, etc generally have characters that go home alone at night. Their work is their community and they are alienated from society. It seems to me that this is a theme that rings true everywhere nowadays.
Response
As I read John's comments about witchcraft, I think how little my church sees the Christian life involving spiritual warfare. Last night I listened to a Haitian pastor speak about planting his church and school in a town of 10,000 forty-five miles from the capital. The town is in darkness and people are without understanding. There were 25 voodoo temples and no churches in this town. Think about the target on the backs of the 80 members of that church.
Pastor Choubert told of leaving his church at midnight and at the intersection where his church sits a voodoo ceremony was being performed. He prayed God would disrupt and quiet this noisy ceremony. As he walked past the people the drums stopped and a quiet settled over the performers. His take was that God assured him that God was present. Harry Potter demonstrates a power. We may need to find ways to allow God to demonstrate his power in our sanitized churches.