Samples of responses on our forums to the issue of pastor's spouse

Online Conversations

The role of the spouse and the pastor's family is one of the major paradigm shifts we aren't talking about in church circles. The climbing divorce rate among clergy is reaching epidemic proportions. I know I just got divorced because the stress of a transformation was too great on our marriage.  Confession #1 I worked hard at it, there was so much to be done and it was a
critical care scenario. The good news is that the work is paying off, but what a price.

The concept of team work in church transformation is crucial. Now that we have built up the church we can afford a Director of Discipleship and a retired pastor to do Congregational Care and guest follow up. After 5 organists in the last three years we have someone who can do what we need to take the pressure off.

Questions for the forum. What is the role of the pastor's family in all of this. My devastation was when you deal with people who are young enough to be working still, they are busy or only available at night and weekends.  When you have your own children who need some attention on evenings and weekends you get set up for a tug of war. I can see after such a battle why some of our pastors look forward to a congregation of old people who want a chaplain, they don't drive at night and don't go anywhere so you can have your nights free. The seniors do stuff during the day when children and spouse are at work so there isn't the conflict as evident.

Question for the forum. Does your spouse work? Do you do well enough in a church plant to make that a team effort without the needed income from a spouse. This Washington DC area is so expensive most families cannot afford to have one stay home. Unless they decide they don't need furniture in the living room, as some have discovered. I'm divorced and have two kids in college and giving up food is about the only place to stretch a dollar around here. So how do we address this issue from a transformational perspective to have healthy enough pastors to be creative in problem solving and transformational ministries and creative worship and preaching and outreach...

I can see why many choose not to go this route....

I think that this is one of the most important discussions that needs to be made regarding church planters and church leaders.  There are so many people and things that can qqqqdistractqqqq us from our priorities for our families and for our calling.  Is balance a possibility?  Perhaps I should put it another way:  Working toward balance is a requirement for us as a leadership family and also as a model for new paradigm church.  We won't survive without balance.

People don't look to our family as a picture of holiness or perfection.  We are merely an authentic picture of a "normal" family with "normal" ups and downs.  Sure we are a family with parents who have leadership gifts, but we still deal/dealt with diapers, grades, spending quality AND quantity time together, financial issues, health issues, homework, sports, etc.  Because life IS challenging we say "yes" to God and it makes a big difference for us and hopefully others will see this in us, BUT it doesn't make life "easier."  We just have more tools and the directions to use those tools effectively.


What is the role of the pastor's family?

For our paradigm we just another active family among many.  The people in our community are peers.  We are not on a pedestal like in the old paradigm. We're just real.  I have some gifts and skills, but not all gifts.  I make mistakes in life and usually people in the congregation will hear about this in my conversational teaching eventually as I try to apply biblical principles to real life, and as I stand before people an authentic flesh and blood person, and not as a "mysterious" clergyperson.

Schedules:

My office is in my home.  This is good and bad.  The good:  When I'm writing I see my five year old daughter all the time.  She gets and gives lots of hugs throughout the day.  Once a day or so I take a play break with her.  I usually am home to welcome my three sons when they return from school.  It is an appointment I place on my DayTimer.  Two to three times a week we'll play in the front yard for 30 minutes to an hour.  Then I'm off meeting folks or writing.

I must do these things for balance, because right now Sunday nights are small group, Tuesdays I meet with various people, Wednesday's New Community Worship, Thursday's Band Practice, Friday's are date night with Laura, and Saturday's are Family.  Of course any given week these nights may get shuffled some, but we work hard to make it work.

The down side for having the office in my home is when I can't sleep, I'll work and write.  I love to write and can write for hours on messages, book ideas, planting ideas, media advertising for the church, etc.  Also when everyone is occupied in the evening with studies, or TV, I'll slip into the office and work on stuff for a while.  We have a sign that goes on the doors to my office now that my wife is in charge of:  "Office is Closed."   Usually when that's hanging on my doors I stay out.

Laura does not work outside the home.  We have been very blessed by this.  As I've mentioned before I have another business that provided the start up funds that we needed personally, but those resources have run out now.  We now get by on what the church pays us which is still less that I received as an associate pastor two years ago.  The cost of living in Amarillo is very low in comparison with other areas of the country so the financial distraction has been minimized.

The key for us is priorities.  We train (not try) to seek the kingdom of God first; to work on marriage and family relationships second, and then to serve. The music, the drama and art, the creative energy, the community actually helps us to be a family, and Pinnacle is designed to help other families be what they were created to be as well.

I've been reading and printing all of your wonderful responses to my post. Thank you. It has been a help just to not feel so isolated in dealing with these issues. The intersection of ministry and marriage has been difficult for my husband and I to negotiate -- especially since we come from very different church and cultural backgrounds.

The general consensus of the postings seems to be that the pastor's spouse (PS -- I like that :-) should prayerfully define his/her role within his/her giftings/callings. One common theme I hear -- both on this forum and in my reading/talking with others is the struggle for the congregation to not demand TOO MUCH from the PS. But my experience is that it isn't necessarily the QUANTITY of what the church wants -- it's the CONTENT of it. In other words, -- I'm thinking more about PWs now -- it appears that PWs can do just about all they want as long as it is done in traditional "female" roles such as work with children, provide hospitality, participate in social events etc. It appears to me that many churches "flip out" when PWs take more leadership roles. It seems the issue is not the amount of "activity" so much as the perceived degree of influence. Also, I'm sure it is purely a gender issue. It seems that what is acceptable for women in general in the congregation is not necessarily acceptable for PWs.

For example, we had an interesting scenario in my husband's first call after seminary. He was called to a church I attended as a member during his seminary studies. During the tenure of his predecessor this small rural church had a desperate need for pulpit supply one Sunday. After weeks of asking for volunteers, I felt nudged to offer to do it (I'm Bible College trained and speak professionally.) That was received well. Several years later, in the same church my husband was out of town and I was asked to fill the pulpit again by the pulpit committee. With my husband's blessing - I did. Several people in the congregation were not happy that I did so -- some of the same people who were blessed when I did before. It seems that as long as I wasn't the PW, such a role was acceptable, but once I was (the PW) it (the role) wasn't.

How do you recommend Ps and PSs handle establishing healthy roles within a congregation that has a history of difficulty with PSs? One of the congregations my husband is considering has already set out -- pretty intensely -- to define my role (it would be nice for you to attend social events, but we are not hiring you.... which was later clarified to mean I should not be "outspoken" and not participate on committees etc.) without any effort to get to know me or what God has called me to do.

I'm especially interested in hearing about keeping marriage healthy in transformational ministry. The posts thus far have been so encouraging (and scary). I think sometimes the PW becomes a target for conflict because some parts of the transformational process are painful and the PW may be a "safer" target for attacks. How can ministry couples make themselves aware of that triangulation? What are the clues that it's happening? How/who should address it with the person/group/congregation?

My wife does not work outside the home. We made that commitment long before we had kids. We stretch. We go without. We don't do things we would like to do. And in all honesty, we have parents who are very generous to their grandkids. That does make a big difference.  

An interesting note...I don't believe this would be a confidential issue because he has spoken about it from the pulpit of his church. Mike & Carolyn Slaughter, he's pastor at Ginghamsburg, didn't know they would stay together until around 1992. The Leadership at Ginghamsburg wonders just how much GUM would have grown had their marriage been healthy.

I think healthy marriages and healthy churches go together because the family is a little church. Leadership of one carries over into leadership of the other.

My wife and I worked out our own transformation over the past year.  The dynamics have to do with both our personal journey, and the congregation's.  When we met at college, I was specifically preparing for ministry in response to my sense of calling.   Her sense of calling came later, as she served the church voluntarily. Yes, there were "tugs" for her to do "Pastor Wife" type things, but her own sense of differentiation (knowing who she was/is as an individual) allowed her to decline what did not fit.  

Simplified, after 14 years in one congregation we were at the point where my wife had grown in her own sense of calling to ministry, so I quit my position; gave up the salary, and we both went to seminary for one year to further process her sense of calling. Our discerning question was to candidate as a pastoral couple.

We found in our candidating process, the clearer WE were about our gifts and our own sense of expectations, the more one congregation in particular got excited about us serving with them.

At one point in the process our 9 yr. old daughter requested to meet with the search committee because she had questions for them. To our surprise they consented, and she was heard. Our younger son did not have a need to be a part of the process.

When the congregation met to "vote" on us, we requested the congregation consider extending or not extending "a call" (theological), rather than announcing the percentage result of a vote (democratic process).

We share one position (80/20), working with a full-time associate, and find ourselves in an environment open to permission-giving ministry. Both the PW and the PH have "tugs" to do traditional things, but can respond according to our sense of calling, and not be defensive about saying "no".


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My wife has never worked, but I was Pres. of a company for a number of years making a 6 figure income.  Now in my second career as a financial director/minister for a mission organization, my wife does not need to work but could because my kids are gone.  Luckily both my college kids have full scholarships.  This is all to say that with the current tax code it is almost impossible for a family to make it financially (especially in DC) without both parents working.  This like Dr. Laura says is not good.

We must strengthen our families by scrapping the current tax code and instituting a family friendly simple plan that provides for good government without the balderdash we have had for the last 50 years.  We can not stay a nation based on Judeo-Christian values, or even a strong nation without radically changing our tax laws.  Those of you under stress in your marriage should analyze whether the stress is caused by personality differences or money.  Money is not a reason to break up a marriage-it is a reason to change lifestyles.  Moral choices are difficult.  For instance people in the inner city supplement their income by begging and selling drugs-not a good solution.  I can tell you that I have never been happier or more content.  While there are many demands on my time, my time has never been used in a more rewarding manner.  I hope all of you can have the opportunity to choose something you really want to do and do it.  May God give you guidance...

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Yes, it would be more inclusive, but I think in some cases it would be less helpful.  I'm single so I'm simply speaking from observation, well, actually from my experience, too, as a female pastor.  While in some ways there are parallels for both pastors' wives and husbands, in many ways husbands face far less pressure and fewer expectations than do wives, because the role of pastor's husband is pretty much undefined.  It's more met with confusion than the animosity that pastor's wives sometimes face.

As a single female pastor I was expected to do not only what a male pastor was expected to do, but also what his wife would be expected to do, such as dishes for suppers, teaching children's Sunday School, taking food baskets with the United Methodist Women.  I didn't do most of it, but I sure heard about it. My standard response when anyone compares me to anyone else is, "Obviously she is a much better person than I am."

I wouldn't want the role of a pastor's husband to be left out of this conversation.  I find it helpful since I hope to one day have a husband.  Gender may not matter for the role of a pastor's spouse in transformational leadership on the other side of the wormhole, but in talking about the stresses on the family in the process of transforming  congregations, I think it's important to allow room for those differences, including the different stresses faced by clergy couples.

Recommended reading for any clergy family is "Generation to Generation" by Edwin Friedman.  He emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries between family and congregation, which I hear many of you doing.


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Jeff raises some very pertinent questions, folks.  And having read Kurt's post regarding this thread and not knowing exactly how to respond, but feeling the urge to, let me take just a few moments to tell our story.  This is long - so if
you don't have time, you know where the delete button is by now. 

My wife and I were both called to ministry, in fact, I met her at seminary - I was employed by the seminary as professional staff (television ministry), and she was a student.  I am divorced with three children.  My wife was never married before and we have two children.

For ten years my wife served as a Christian Educator and Youth Minister.  She served with me in a smaller church, on the staff of a larger church, together again in a large church where I was an associate, and then for four years in her
own setting apart from mine.  Through these ten years our marriage paid a HUGE price.  And through these ten years, her role as Pastor's Wife was always a very sensitive issue.

Then, after both of us began to work hard on our relationship and on our own personal issues in a process of counseling and therapy, my wife left her 'church' position and entered a real 'ministry' position as a teacher, the ministry she's been called to.  When we moved to our present position, after a year of searching for a position, my wife is now 'called' as a HS art teacher and, after two years is more engaged in ministry than in any of the ten years that she worked for the institutional church.

How does she deal with the pressure from the congregation I serve?  (And believe me there's all the usual stuff - Women's group, not being at both worship services, living up to the 'standard' of previous minister's wives, etc.) It's taken us 12 1/2 years of marriage and a lot of valleys to get here, but we're healthier than we've ever been because we give each other permission and blessing to be who we are in our separate callings as ministers.  We are a 'team', although not in the same sense as I heard Kurt describing, and fortunately not needing to choose the path that Jeff sadly found before him.

I guess the best way to express it is that we work hard at being healthy - both spiritually and emotionally - and I know that people sense that health and strength in us.  And when the Old Guard, the folks stuck in the Old Paradigm choose to shoot some missiles at my wife, which they frequently feel the need to do, I tend to do an awful lot of deflecting on her behalf.  And frankly, when the missile does find its target (which isn't too often now days since my wife has a pretty good built in "Patriot Defense System" of firing off plenty of her own anti missile missiles),  then we both make room in our schedule for a day together to regroup and heal.

To clarify - we've both been called to ministry.  We are a team.  And our relationship always comes first - no matter what.  And then our children.  And then our respective calls to ministry.  In that order.  God's claimed both our lives for His purposes, and certainly God's claim comes first.  But not before the wonderful gift of our relationship to each other and our children.

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My wife works in a field similar to clergy in many ways: she's the administrator for the local Alzheimer's Society. We are finding that both of us are working too hard and too many hours. WE have a 16 year old son. I am finding that the work I am doing on Saturday's is the most disruptive to our family life, and is the part of the 'job' I am really beginning to resent.  Most of this work on Saturday's is weddings (I think 26 so far this year) and I'm really feeling that I've had enough. At the present time only clergy or JP's can officiate at weddings here, but I just came across an article in a newspaper from another small town far away from us, that there is a group of people who are apparently licensed to perform weddings who are neither of these two professions. We're investigating.

My wife's role is to be my best friend, my confidante, my lover. And my role with her is the same. What she does or does not do in the church is not the concern of anybody in the church. So far, no problems.


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Ginghamsburg UMC, Tipp City, Ohio (near Dayton) though very large has just a few ordained folks who were overrun by Saturday weddings.  They petitioned their Bishop and last I heard have trained several "lay" people to be wedding presiders.  They are "licensed" in some way.  If this has worked out it has done a lot to help the "professional" staff get balance back regarding Saturdays.

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I am not a pastor or a pastor's wife.  I am a psychologist working in a University Counseling Center.  My sister is a PW.

My own bias is that when we as members or PWs act because of feeling of shame or guilt then we are on the shaky ground that leads to burnout. As an active member of a congregation if I become too involved because of these two emotions I quickly begin to feel burned out.

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My wife, Karen, and I have been married nearly two years. We are both 45 years old and were married once before. My former wife left me almost four years ago for a youth counselor at Bethany. She was obviously not as spiritual as I had hoped. She and I had a history of trying to pray together and have devotions but we could never pull it off. Karen's former husband got involved in a cult (Aranxia, or something like that).

When Karen and I started dating we agreed that a priority for us would be to pray together every morning--without exception--unless one of us was out of town. We did this from the very beginning and have continued to the present day.

We use a devotional guide called "Portals of Prayer" from CPH, our denomination's publishing house. (Phone number: 1-800-325-3381.) The devotion is brief, Gospel centered, and offers a good thought to start the day. After we read that we pray. We share current concerns in ministry, family, people, situations. I usually lead the prayers but on Fridays Karen prays (that's my day off.) We seldom get up at the same time. Karen leaves for work before I do so after she is done getting ready she'll sit on the bed while we pray. On Wednesdays and Saturdays when I leave before she gets up I'll do the same. Our devotional time is usually no more than 5 minutes. But it is so much a part of our morning routine we never miss a day. It has made a great difference in strengthening our relationship.

Lately we have felt a desire for even more spiritual time together.  So, for her birthday last month, I bought a couples devotional book by Pat Morley, founder of "Man in the Mirror" ministries based in Orlando. We try to do one of those two or three times a week just before we go to bed.

This has worked for us. My advice is to try something simple, brief, and build it into your normal routine. Jeff, God bless you and Karla!  May He help you serve one another and help each other become everything He wants you to be.

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My husband and I recently attended a marriage seminar by Gary Chapman. During the seminar, he said that it was important for couples to learn to pray together. He then outlined how to do so.

1. Hold your spouse's hand(s)
2. Close your eyes
3. Pray silently
4. When you are done with your prayer, say "Amen" out loud
5. When spouse is done with his/her prayer, they say "Amen" out loud
6. You have just prayed together!

This was wonderful for me, because as a new Christian, I did not feel comfortable praying out loud with my husband. It also takes away the "God, did you see what he/she did today?!" type prayers that aren't really talking to God, but to your spouse. I don't know if this helps, but perhaps you have so much wrapped up in what it means to "pray together" that taking some of the pressure off by praying silently would help.